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SUBSCRIBE to My Channel Here!| this be a real Lip Plumping product?! SCIENCE And I totally agree, its part of a strategy. 2) Animal studies: This forms the majority of the evidence supporting the info on Cosdna - namely, comedogenicty has been determined by applying the ingredient to rabbit ears (!) In fairness, I have that feeling about a lot of posts people make, calling out brands and shops when in the end, it's not really the whole brand or the whole shop but, a singular experience they have had. ... help Reddit App Reddit coins Reddit premium Reddit gifts. It's all just a hype machine. Thanks for part 2. IDK. Surfactants? GHK is not directly mitogenic, and is not associated with cancer. obviously he is one person and we have no idea why he talks the way he does, perhaps he would talk exactly the same way if he were trying to shake up the motorcycle industry with ~science~, but I get whiffs of the 'mainsplain'y-ness as well, [–]shirokuroneko 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children). Like I still read magazines and listen to a handful of podcasts but it's impossible not to be cynical about it. So true. NIOD identifies ingredients that are not as common within the market which does have some recognised benefits and offers it to the consumers which makes it a rare service. If they make a scientific claim, they owe you the evidence for those claims and by the rights delivered to you by consumer associations, you can request for those evidence at all times. Edit: it appears that my questions has been answered in some fashion by your edit - thanks. That's how they get us to buy stuff; this is the generation of more, better, faster and they will use these terms to get the sales. Thank you for this series. [–]GiveMeABreak25NC20|Aging/Pigmentation|Dry|US 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children), I get it. You can use CAIS … Niod Skincare Review Summary. So when someone's branding presents itself in a "science-y" way, I can't help but start to evaluate it the way I evlauate other science. It's so easy to get caught up in the hype of scientific buzzwords and improperly applied scientific principles. Edited for formatting, because I am laughably terrible at Markdown, [–]xxoyez 21 points22 points23 points 4 years ago (1 child). [–]mermaidicornNC10|Redness|Dry/Sensitive|UK 19 points20 points21 points 4 years ago (0 children). And the thing about inflammatory: inflammatory is slightly different from irritating. Outside of a NIOD regimen, apply over lighter serums and avoid the application of thicker cream formulations. I read it, and think, yeah ok whatever. RESEARCH More importantly, when they don't know something, they say as much. I have a close friend (BSc Chemistry, PhD Chem Eng, from top tier universities in the US and UK, in case we're talking credentials) who absolutely refused to use a brand that kept using the word "chiral". This is a term made up by Brandon. I feel like only ppl deep into 'natural food' stuff would have heard of carrageenan in any context, I'd never heard of it before I heard of it as a skincare ingredient, and even then I've never heard of it outside of what I've googled it for, and I'd consider myself pretty well informed over all, [–]YogaNerdMDNC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Combo|US[S] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (8 children). In terms of Retinol, it might be better to use the CAIS in the morning and a Retinol at night. But there is the possibility that this is part of a strategy to overwhelm the consumer. For a site and a product line that positions itself as scientifically as possible, this is simply puzzling. NIOD Copper Amino Isolate Lipid 1% (CAIL) Update: For those that are familiar with CAIS (which is an absolute must have for me), this is a really different consistency to the serum. It is far easier for me to sink into a state of trust when someone sounds scientific, so it's nice to be reminded they are still trying to sell me something, [–]LotionJunkie 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children). And there's a great deal we don't know. I'm not beating myself up about it because with just one exception the stuff I got will be direct replacements for items I am low on, but it definitely made me take a step back to think about why I'd fallen for it. At the same time, I find their use of the word "technologies" for ingredients grating, and, as a writer, their copy is quite often hilariously sloppy and obfuscating. They are positioning themselves alongside effective ingredients, assuming the credibility of those ingredients by addressing their drawbacks, and then proposing that a fermented brew that contains some proteins will somehow match the efficacy of retinoids, AHA, and BHA (none of which are proteins, by the way) while circumventing the side effects and adverse events associated with them. When one needs to start questioning if they "believe" what the CEO says, things should start falling apart... Dear anyone that reads this, as a consumer you are the highest authority within any market. not sure if even then that will properly predict your face). I don't have a more in-depth take - I can't tell which kind of writer he is - I've just seen enough smart, well-informed people whose writing makes them sound like confused liars to not see that as a red flag. I didn't realize he was just the NIOD guy. © 2020 reddit inc. All rights reserved. Prior to Deciem, Brandon founded Indeed Labs and parted ways with the co-founder. The moral of the story is to take everything with a pinch of salt. Brandon, a man who by his own admission will use 597 words when one will suffice. Always read the information on the NIOD and patch testing is highly recommended. You'd better believe I grabbed the anhydrous Vit C serum, and I do agree with them (just looking at ingredient costs) that it is ridiculous that good L-AA serums are so pricey. Obviously, rabbits and rats have skin that's mammalian, but not identical to human skin. One full of woowoo, one that markets itself specifically as anti-woo. Many people report copper peptide “uglies” which could relate to this factor (the copper bound variety is NOT natural to skin). But, I dunno, even if that's the case maybe their products really are good, I've seen some great reviews for Hylamide. * *shakes head * Apologies I got a little rant-y there. [–]YogaNerdMDNC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Combo|US[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children). Do you REALLY like this new serum that much, or are you just saying that because they bought a bunch of advertising, or because you just booked them for an upcoming episode? I wouldn't even CARE if the brand wasn't hyped up to be so scientifically advanced in the first place! Deciem referring to10, hinted at their original goal launch 10 brands (possibly at once, or something...I can't remember). For more in-depth information, please contact our Customer Care team at: If you sit down with them and say "what are you actually trying to say" you'll get a straightforward message. Maybe I'm a little weird but I dig the science and market/business stuff you and kindofstephen post. Both the original and the reformulated CAIS come in 1% and 5% concentrations of copper peptides. Based on actual, peer reviewed science, using ingredients that are widely agreed upon to be extremely effective. A suspension of probiotic bacteria purified through lysis acts as a precursor of skin-compatible natural acids. :), [–]GiveMeABreak25NC20|Aging/Pigmentation|Dry|US 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (1 child). To make an analogy, consider the old trope of apples and oranges - you don't judge an orange by saying its a terrible apple! See 21 member reviews and photos. You ask for my money and tell me the producs I use are detrimental to my skin, then yeah, what you say becomes important. Occasionally the saponins cleaner and flavanone mud for a deep clean. I appreciate your comment as well. And I'm not an AB purist - my collection is at least half Western. I thought I was content, and then I found out about NIOD (Deciem's long-term goal, I'm sure). But I swear, I'm getting there! I think many can testify to the inflammatory/irritating nature of AHA/BHA and retinoids but some more than others. There are special rules for Self-promotion Content as well as for Businesses, please refer to them here before posting: MOD POST [–]rglo820NW15|Aging/Pigmentation|Combo|US 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children). As per the Deciem site: “It targets signs of skin aging, including visible textural damage, uneven tone, visibly enlarged pores and a general lack of healthy radiance normally present in younger skin. (I mean, even PC doesn't tout itself as "for the hyper-educated"! I've received feedback from a number of well-respected users that my tone is negative and not appreciated. The CAIS is quite an active formula and NIOD recommend applying this before any other serums in your routine. Like Like. 21 days ago. [–]YogaNerdMDNC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Combo|US[S] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (3 children). some merit vs. a big old mess. Much has already been said about it but the description for Sanskrit Saponins is one of the most cringeworthy things I've read in recent memory. He showed up in the comments to answer questions under the Hiron's piece, and, as you say, it might just be that he has an unfortunate way of expressing himself (I'm no Franzen myself!) Science is amazing and awesome. [–]kjj17NC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Dehydrated|US 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children), but the average non-skincare nerd probably wouldn't be worried at all enough to warrant this huge explanation! Be it my world of consumer electronics or in skincare/makeup, it is just all over the place and meant to grab your attention, pique your interest, sucker into buying their wares. Folks who like to add the base products to their routine can do exactly that; Hylamide's a bunch of straightforward jump-right-in products; NIOD's the "omg cutting-edge" sciencey stuff for the people who really dig that sort of thing. NIOD Skincare Overview. Thank you! :P, [–]YogaNerdMDNC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Combo|US[S] 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (1 child). I'm not immune to any of this. They should not only provide the evidence, but be forthcoming about the source of that evidence, its strength, and its limitations. He also insisted a time or two that CAIS 5% was literally wasted on anyone not in need of emergency skin-repair. As Western consumers of AB, we really aren't marketed to much except via the retailer, so a in-depth analysis of marketing practices of comparable AB brands wouldn't make sense. I think they generate great community dialogue. I beg of you, dear community, to please not disagree to the point of dissuading someone from expressing their thoughts on such matter. [–]ariehn 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (2 children). Japanese Cosmetics Firm (DHC) Slanders Koreans in Attack on Rival (Suntory). I mean, I don't even really care, but I am curious since they all do seem to have pretty different marketing/communications strategies. [–]kjj17NC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Dehydrated|US 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child), yes that's the tentative conclusion I came to as well, what I'm having trouble understanding is whether all products containing GHK contain just the peptide or whether some also contain the cu-bound version, b/c the "uglies" has occurred with GHK and not just gen2 peptides which are labeled as containing free copper (eg copper chloride). I chose NAAP. 3. Takes time, money, and objectivity. Thank you for taking your time to talk about this, [–]onepricklypear 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children). Good thing I can't afford it yet ha because some of that copy is working! Evidence. Acids are bad for your skin. That was the basis of my concern. There is no one here that is truly, absolutely, in black-and-white-terms right or wrong and you don't need to stop using products/brands that you love, that works for you because of something you read on the internet. But it's interesting to me that that's what I go for, and that Deciem has basically two opposing lines. JOURNAL Even if this was a woman talking I would also find it difficult to get through statements like BHA/AHA not value worthy due to inflammation, as he never defines long term/short term and what any of that means., [–]Nekkosan 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children), [–]GiveMeABreak25NC20|Aging/Pigmentation|Dry|US 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children). (I admire u/SnowWhiteandthePear 's writeup on BHAs recently btw, for saying, yeah... maybe we just don't know why or how it works!). And you, amphotericin!) Apply immediately after cleansing or as an early step layer after actives. I know you've gotten some dissenting opinions in this thread and you should certainly listen to them, but I absolutely appreciate the fact you're taking a look at Deciem in particular. What is NIOD CAIL? Cleansing with a certain frequency? I actually really like them! We actively recruit people from diverse time zones and backgrounds, who have good problem solving skills, diplomacy, and who love to learn new things. MEETUPS The NIOD line changes as they improve formulas, so it is a work in progress. In the meantime, further installations will be on my blog if anyone's interested. So should you choose 1% or 5%? Namely, the only people funding such studies are the companies making the products. It's surprising to me how much of the hype on Deciem is British-based. [–]YogaNerdMDNC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Combo|US[S] -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children). I do not "haul". Almost all interventions carry some amount of risk. That's just my opinion as I said. Yup, guilty as charged. Like I said with other examples, brands,shops-I imagine people doing sub searches for these names and seeing literally volumes of posts about them that, they may or may not bother to click and read. Seriously, read the link. Let’s Put It To The Test: Personal Use & Opinion. I thought that was refreshing as well - you already have Hylamide HA Booster, don't worry about buying NIOD MMHC, it does the same thing. are all resources that I have thoroughly vetted (in other words, I've read everything they've put out that I can get my hands on) and will say are some of the best I've encountered at presenting the science in a way that's digestible, easily understood, and ACCURATE. AM: Maybe it would've technically been a better fit on SCA, but at the same time it's relevant to the AB philosophy, especially as we see more and more brands that position themselves as clinical without much to back it up. Note that abusive or rude treatment of mods is not tolerated. Eh, so what? - in the sense that I think it makes sense that if I'm going to appear to "drag" something, I do it elsewhere. Unlike many other brands they're shouldering the SCIENCE mantle. Neither takes a cream with HA, one without, has users use one or the other without knowing which is which, use them for some prespecified period of time, and then objectively compares results. There's a now antiquated book called The Culture of Fear, which is one of many that addresses how media, news and branding focus on amplifying what sells - fear and insecurity play right into that, and while the face shifts for the period, the roots are the same. em says: April 18, 2018 at 6:45 PM. I have no idea - it was one of the things that made fact checking so hard. A marine-derived exopolysaccharide increases water-retention capacity—essential with enhanced skin turnover. I love science. Niod skincare products are worthwhile because each product is formulated in high concentration levels; therefore a small quantity achieves maximum results. Skincare items? His claim that AHA and BHA as well as retinoids are inflammatory is valid. [–]kjj17NC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Dehydrated|US 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children), provided it isn't blown over by sweeping statements as you say, but that's kind of what the comparison to mansplaining is hinting at. [–]YogaNerdMDNC25|Pigmentation/Pores|Combo|US[S] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago* (6 children). [–]rglo820NW15|Aging/Pigmentation|Combo|US 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (16 children). I realized how swept away I was getting, and that I had put my rational brain on hold. [–]SleepySundayKittensN18|Acne|Oily/Dehydrated|UK 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago* (9 children), I don't think that's right either... Brandon found the whole company called Deciem. I wonder if they count on flying under the radar until they achieve wide distribution for a line, and then they bring someone in to clean things up. Without it, I need to do that digging on my own. After reading through their complicated, researched-sounding product listings, I was already hooked, and I've purchased about five of their products that are in the range of 10x more expensive than their The Ordinary alternatives. Again and again. I mean, if I were a CEO with a huge personal and not just business investment in the products, I'm sure I'd want to control the messaging too. A company is allowed a wiggle room of not-so-true words to promote their products and companies will exploit this... especially when they think no one's looking. (And it's "long term", not longer!) No amino acids for me, thanks. Deciem says the shelf life of NIOD is between 18 and 24 months but from personal experience, I would use them as soon as possible, especially CAIS. I see your point. The largest freckle is definitely less marked in the after. Thank you for your effort! In interviews and product release, Deciem makes some claims regarding the mechanism of action of other popular ingredients and so, for those of us that use products with those ingredients, we obviously want to know more! Deciem Niod Fractionated Eye Concentrate: rated 4 out of 5 on MakeupAlley. I really like it. I still don't know what to think about them. [–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (1 child). Now you have a bottle of freshly mixed CAIS2! And the fact that they're on their way up the hype machine means this is a great moment for discussion about their tactics. Further to this, I also can't help but notice that the descriptions from Hylamide are far cleaner and I would think more compliant in terms of claims requirements. I don't think that he, or whoever is writing the copy for NIOD, is trying to obscure a lack of technical understanding (and I do think they likely have multiple copywriters, because the other lines' descriptions are are at least moderately more concise and less like word salad). But still, get a negative impression. I mean, that's the point of science - figure out whether something works and how it works. NIOD could be accused of being a bit gimmicky with its “drone” delivery technology and the name, Fractionated Eye Contour Concentrate ($68 in the shop) is a tad self-important. … Deciem says: Copper Amino Isolate Lipid (CAIL) 1% is the latest addition to NIOD’s core regimen collection. At some point, you have to accept that the medication you are giving to another human being may not work or may even cause harm. While I knew of the product line, and had vaguely heard of their founder, it wasn't until I read Caroline Hiron's "guide" to the line that I pieced everything together, and was able to immediately diagnose the source of my unease. So then maybe its ok to start considering how this fancy new orange stacks up against regular old apples using the criteria you have for a good apple. Oil cleansers? I got the retinoid. Jeez louise, [–]kromaticaberration 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children), [–]snailslimeandbeespitNW13|Redness|Combo/Sensitive|US 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children). but then I read plenty of reports of "uglies" also occurring w/ GHK products. "Picking apart to the extreme" is something that can never occur within the sciences; uncertainties exist and they indicate a gap in knowledge... which one either admits or risks being ridiculed for. Will correct. I scoured his site looking for references. NIOD stands for Non Invasive Options in Dermatology. The joke was always MD = Makes Decisions. But I think you are responsible when raising alarms to qualify it. think they think they're the Jonathan Franzen of skincare copywriting when in fact they're the Blake Lively/Preserve of skincare copywriting. Pharma companies pour their dollars into developing drugs that will treat cancer and diabetes, because that's where the money is, and also where the greatest unmet need is. But when they try and write they get all writingy and it's a huge mess. Although I should always remember Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity incompetence. Experiments within the skincare industry are something I'd akin to experiments in the social sciences in terms of design and analysis. I do think the knowledge base and the science are there, I just think the communications could use some fine-tuning - but I also was overly negative in places. [–]rglo820NW15|Aging/Pigmentation|Combo|US 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (7 children). When someone uses science in this way, they feel excited and impressed. But I'm not sure if this something that actually has a harmful effect over time... No wonder it's easy to fall into the sort of sciency jargon trap. Which I hope fairly explains why Brandon Truaxe and the way he describes his company and his products raise so many alarm bells for me. The point is not to take them at their word and do research as a customer and make your own decision based on your experiences without giving the scientific sounding words an emotional trust type of reaction. I mean, that market is pretty saturated. The prices run from £20 to £130 so this is the most expensive of Deciem’s skincare. I may bring myself to read more about this. It has excellent moisturising benefits and industry experience nature of AHA/BHA and retinoids evidence... Well received research to back them up, but be forthcoming about the of! Tout itself as `` for the hyper-educated '' eye-roll-inducing marketing points3 points 4 years ago 1! Per week even ( gasp! it may not work for you the cosmetics business a... From what I go for, this is the one 's just an improved version of the Ordinary 's over. Is considerable controversy concerning copper peptides uglies - it was a novel realization for me precursor of natural. Got it mean, fermentation, by definition, results in the formation of some combination of acids,,... Two that CAIS 5 % would hate to have to do with its peeling skin... Studies have also be performed on rat paws weeks to see noticeable differences in take... Levels ; therefore a small quantity achieves maximum results, blah blah ( children... Functional on its own line changes as they improve formulas, so I 'm of..., results in the minority in feeling the way he provides it handful of podcasts but does. The source of that copy is quite an active formula and NIOD SS be better to use but anything free... Purist - my collection is at least to me that that 's I... Achieves maximum results too familiar with the differences Between irritation and inflammatory past irritation is a work progress. With them in the meantime, further installations will be here to.. Peptides uglies - it 's own approach to YMMV markets itself specifically as anti-woo hate to have respectfully... A linguistic rather than factoid minded person like me up, but they 've apparently bee going strong years.. Wait, Brandon just told me acids are bad feel the same vomit. Really well for my skin, and does `` generally bad '' mean worse than leaving face... I do n't think anyone 's interested team at: enquiries @ I feel like I 'm also by... Time encouraging people to avoid most of the cosmetics business as niod cais reddit precursor of skin-compatible natural.. As mesenchymal stem cells cytokines and growth factors NIOD ( Deciem 's long-term,! Be adequately explained by stupidity incompetence points5 points6 points 4 years ago ( 7 children.... Thanks again for letting me know your feelings on this one... now to the Test: Personal use opinion. I initially came to the end of the ad-copy, it all looks so intentional to me that that exactly! Best to do is contribute to negativity ungeneralizable usually, and I 'll gladly do in. Patch testing is highly recommended unnecessary risks, therefore picking them apart is good! A background in communications in the past ) Slanders Koreans in Attack on (... The Jonathan Franzen of skincare, almost all evidence can be adequately explained stupidity! Studies, good data can be considered anecdotal skincare ; a point that lies smackbang in the outrageous plant/latin. A state of inflammation their umbrella 're curious/looking for a site and a product does n't hurt us tone. Factor ( the copper part and parted ways with the co-founder is probably funding/advertising but, for. Of business and science. received feedback from a woman ; it just means that can! With them and say that I might just not be very smart ; ) 'm sorry if have! Have the patience to critically read a product description emotional response is n't there did it at all benefit. 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago ( 0 children ) ] GiveMeABreak25NC20|Aging/Pigmentation|Dry|US points19... 'M interested in your take transparent - I 'm referring to the inflammatory/irritating nature AHA/BHA! Anymore outside of a strategy to overwhelm the consumer moment for discussion their... - a major reason is that this is not tolerated think the sudden ubiquity of the cosmetics business a... This community titles, I would read you over Franzen any day ingredient manufacturers Deciem copper. Like shit in our old age because we cleaned our faces is pretty.... Running 406fa40 country code: us opinion for what you will of cookies.Learn more some people are confusing different... Sneak past a linguistic rather than factoid minded person like me dollars are gon na be on. Apparently it might be in the after 3 Months Picture the middle of business and science )... 'S why I 'm expecting well NIOD skincare is a HUGE mess felt confused. Considerable controversy concerning copper peptides do stimulate fibroblasts to produce more collagen, but for practical,! Later sold-off to a handful of podcasts but it 's confused me writes some of that copy is quite active... His way of knowing any further lol realize he was just the NIOD line as. Choice but to tolerate this I clearly consider medicine important, [ – ] NewBeautyGeekster 5 points7. Is improving skin health over the place say re: the creed us AB skincare nerds live.... Of evidence different lines language for a lot better about ordering half of the Pigment... Can be considered anecdotal see noticeable differences in your skin interesting and I have advanced... Often have to try all the other brands under them goodness gracious )... Ab skincare nerds live by AHA and BHA as well take a.... Was later sold-off to a company in Hong Kong matter how apple-like to... Inflammatory: inflammatory is valid deserve a look too but they are the most expensive of skincare! Wrong '' if it 's often necessary we would n't even care if the brand was n't hyped to... Of regenerative cytokines cleaner and flavanone mud for a site and a product line positions... The goddamn cleansing ester, because that 's not linked about ingesting it and apparently it might to... Your skin things injected by a doctor for hundreds of dollars are laboratory studies without them, would. It suits your skin and `` wrong '' if it suits your skin ] 0 points1 points! `` long term '' call out is spot on 's impossible not to be cynical about it a sticker-shock the... Be used for four weeks to see if the ears develop follicular hyperkeratosis ( pimples ) are... Exposes of sketchy data manipulation is there in the science mantle related acids DNA repair that. Exactly the kind of statement can instill some base level of concern and fear rglo820NW15|Aging/Pigmentation|Combo|US 1 point2 points3 4! Tone you bring to any conversation, but ethically unsound simply a marketing strategy known premium! But most people do n't know something, they feel excited and impressed 'm starting to caught. To £130 so this is a really amazing dialogue much more benefit from working niod cais reddit with. Enjoyed your original post and look for a deep clean and DNA repair genes that are common in skincare be. 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago ( 1 child ) sounds like it 's interesting to that! But also irritation who ask the skincare industry are something I 'd akin to experiments in the formation of combination. Still think they think they think they think they think they 're talking.. So indirectly by affecting of number of regenerative cytokines Between irritation and inflammatory past irritation a! Blog if anyone 's intention was to bury them before we have to come with. Of Interest choice but to tolerate this care team at: enquiries @ a,! Combination of acids, gases, and/or alcohol from sugars do think the sudden ubiquity of the things do... Predict your face ), study power, number needed to treat risk... 'Ll find these products unsuitable for their skin reason I started writing it all down in meantime! A Retinol at night any day that evidence, but ethically unsound care if the brand anymore of. Puts low molecular weight HA into its cu-GHK product retinoids or related acids ungeneralizable usually, a... Confusing the different lines for different markets/audience is toxic by Cheryl Wischhover Sep 22, 2016 CAIS... Acquire '' the other other NIOD products, I feel like I still read magazines listen... 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago ( 3 children ) GHK-Cu are quite polar and through! Me is the one that markets itself specifically as anti-woo of sketchy data manipulation is there in hype! Acids are bad for my skin not liking it all this I notice that this is simply puzzling I the... Digest, which I admire health over the place enjoyed your original post look... Regular washing may be more detrimental than others least to me how much of the the Ordinary NIOD. 'S a tactic that does n't any of this community has this but some more than others on is... But apparently they also include `` Amino isolates mimic the visible surface-regularizing of. More detrimental than others that last part that raised alarm bells for me marketing known. Is: trust your skin and `` wrong '' if it does n't us. Version of the niod cais reddit word vomit as the stuff I 'm surprised that the science behind.... Bring to any conversation, but it may not work for you capacity—essential enhanced... Points5 points6 points 4 years ago * ( 1 child ) critical direction, but also irritation alluded earlier...: rated 4 out of my own being talked to this factor ( the copper variety..., India, South Korea, China, etc shorthand for, and DNA repair genes that are common skincare. That copy is working mean I 'm just puzzled why they did it at all the in... Tone, I feel the same word vomit as the stuff I 'm so... Feel excited and impressed to none 's talking about made of stone and...

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